lolaraincoat: drawing of pencil (pencil)
[personal profile] lolaraincoat
So I'm writing not one but two bad guys for [livejournal.com profile] hp_dungeons, a RPG/soap opera whose recent developments are best explained in cartoon form, over here and it disturbs me -- to put it mildly -- to find all that awfulness in my head and put it on the screen. I didn't know there was any part of me that was so ... so ... nasty, you know?

I mean, I've been voicing Charlie Weasley for a year now, and he's a really nice guy (and all the sweetest bits of Charlie's character come straight from observation of [livejournal.com profile] fishwhistle so I can't even claim that Charlie's niceness makes up for my evil characters' meanness, because it's not mine) but this is -- different. I'm seriously unnerved.

Fanfic authors, has this ever happened to any of you? And if so, what did you do about it?

Date: 2007-06-25 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] djinnj.livejournal.com
See, I don't consider the awfulness to come from any personal rot, but rather from an awareness of just how awful the world can be. If you aren't blinkered to it, then you can tap it as a resource.

After all, we're portraying villains. We know quite well that we have to be villainous when voicing them and so we'll pick the worst of what we know. Which is (sadly for the world) pretty awful.

Date: 2007-06-25 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lolaraincoat.livejournal.com
I guess what's worrying me is that so much of both my evil characters is ... me, you know? Lizzie just loves physical violence, it brings her joy: that's me, sparring. Binns ... well, Binns and I do the same job, you know? It just creeps me out how much of them I don't borrow from the general planetary storehouse of evil - it comes from my own personal supply.

*shudders*

Date: 2007-06-25 03:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] djinnj.livejournal.com
I did get disconcerted the first time I had F become really vicious; mostly because I was enjoying it!

I think we have to have some connection with our characters, however awful they are, or else they are insubstantial. At least, we do if we aren't geniuses. And evil is often something quite normal twisted just a little bit or missing a small but key element. At least, that's the evil I tend to think is more interesting to write and read about.

I actually have trouble writing aspects of S because he isn't a saint, and it's too easy to write him as some sort of Santa Claus figure. Which is sort of the opposite problem.

Date: 2007-06-26 03:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lolaraincoat.livejournal.com
Hah! yes, I see where that would be exactly the problem with S. and a number of other more-or-less white hats in the Potterverse (at least in fanfic.) One of the best ways to motivate bad (selfish, unthinking, greedy, etc.) behavior in an ambiguous character is to have them run up against material limitations imposed by the real world. In a magical world, where there's likely to be more than enough for all, you lose that possibility - it's too easy for Scrooge to act like Santa, and there goes the story.

Somehow this is all connected in my mind with the Mary Sue issue but I can't quite figure out how.

Date: 2007-06-25 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spiderine.livejournal.com
Sweetie, I have *Bella* in my head.

Think of it as a catharsis. Get all your worst urges out of your head and onto the screen. It's fiction. Some people write rape fic, chan fic, torture fic. Some people write horror stories. They're still nice, good, decent people! (As far as I know. Heh.)

Have fun with it. After all, villains are necessary to any good story. And everyone knows they get all the best dialog! :D

Date: 2007-06-26 03:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lolaraincoat.livejournal.com
See, in whatever part of me does the thinking, I know that. And I'm so grateful to the writers who do that and thus give us all the great villians, like your Bella.

It's just ... when it's me ... when that part of me that's hateful gets out there where I have to look at it ... ewwwwwwww.

That's completely unreasonable and unfair and dumb too. But right now I'm just kind of stuck with the feeling of ick! ugh! yuck!, you know?

Date: 2007-06-25 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
I'm afraid my experience is not going to be very helpful. I've had some stories that depressed me so profoundly that the only way I could exorcise them was to finish writing them--which is obviously not an option in an RPG.

Date: 2007-06-25 03:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lolaraincoat.livejournal.com
So what you're saying is, if my evil character who isn't a ghost already dies a horrible death soon, I will feel 50% better? Because that could be arranged.

Date: 2007-06-25 03:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
I think you will but only if you give ze a send-off that fully reflects ze's stature.

*pouts*

Date: 2007-06-25 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ithiliana.livejournal.com
My internet connection suddenly disconnected this morning, so I lost a great response (it happens so rarely at home or the office I don't think about composing in word, sigh).

I never feel like my re-creation is as good as original was either.

Second try! I think my experience was very similar to yours only in fanfic. I started out with quite soft, romantic, happy ending stuff, with very little darkness (I'm talking FPF here not RPF that's a different story). But I got into darker stuff, and with the Ring as canon, well, it's easy to see where that goes. So I wrote Boromir and Aragorn taking the Ring, but even so the earlier ones which had happy endings put most of the really dark stuff in Ring visisions or dreams. In later work, I wrote the graphically violent stuff, and rape, into the main narrative, but always from the pov of the victim (Faramir usually).

In my RPF, I cannot see going true dark except in role playing because of a persononal ethos: I don't want to write "villains" in RPF.

However, I had a bizarre AU rps with vampires and pirates set in 18th century (historical distance so handy) that I decided to turn into an original novel (snicker), and when I did that, I had to write parts of narrative from the point of view of the human servant of the vampires (haven't yet gotten into writing vampire pov). He was a willing servant, who got not only paid for his sort of security duties, but also enjoyed participating in torture and rape. He is sexually excited by whipping and raping young males, especially. When I started writing in his pov, I really freaked out--but the more I wrote and came to know him (nobody thinks of themselves as villain!), and saw his character as more than the kink, well, my attitude became different. That novel (I know how it ends) isn't a dark/tragic/unhappy ending, but certainly it's written at a different level than anything I've done, and I have to admit that D. comes in part from me. I guess it's fair to say we're all nasty in some ways, and yet will stand by my point made in earlier rants that writing about X is not the same as doing X (nor do I believe my vampire novel will be the *single* cause of someone going out and kidnapping, torturing, and raping somebody).

But yes--seriously unnerved at the first, but I kept writing (and that meant writing meta--I often write meta about my own writing process, snicker, yes, I know totally self-indulgent), and see things differently now.

Would enjoy hearing more about your process of creating these characters--I wonder how different it is to be writing in RPG as opposed to writing from the point of view (that's an important distinction to me--whose head are we in) in a fiction where I'm in effect in control of all characters (or so I pretend), and creating all points of view myself.

Re: *pouts*

Date: 2007-06-26 03:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lolaraincoat.livejournal.com
Alas for your first post!

*kicks lj*

Yeah, I am completely unconcerned about the effects of my prose in the world. What worries me is how much these characters come from aspects of myself that I wish didn't exist.

As to process: hmmm. Yes it makes a huge difference that this all takes place in the context of a RPG. This particular game has a lot of consultation off-camera, so most of what I know about my characters comes from explaining them to other writers -- there's a lot of "well, Binns would do X in response to Slughorn's doing Y, out of A B and C motives" where I wouldn't know his motives if I didn't have to explain them to the person who voices Slughorn.

My other black-hat character came into existence in my head in the moment when I was rejecting another writer's suggestion about her name - it wasn't until I told my fellow author "no, not that, it's too aristo, she's more of a thug" that I realized that she was a thug.

And I am very, very lucky to have these amazing writers to play with. Spider up there who voices Bellatrix? Holy cow she's scary-good. And Djinnj who is Fenrir is a fiend for research, and also just a fiend. And pretty much everyone else who writes in the game: they're intensely creative and imaginative and energetic and just, wow wow wow. So a lot of my process is just trying to keep up with the other authors, and usually failing too.

And then we have really smart, careful and opinionated readers who have their own comm, and I get the occasional idea from their speculations (sometimes I do what they think I'm going to do but would never have thought of doing until they suggested it. Hee!)

Usually the whole thing makes me intensely happy but writing the bad guys is hard this week.

I've been meaning to write about the general RPG experience as well, in more detail, but that's a start.

Date: 2007-06-26 04:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winterthunder.livejournal.com
It's an interesting point you bring up. I've always considered my characters to be a part of myself, amplified. I have to identify with them on some level otherwise it just doesn't work- they come across shallow and one sided. I think of it as a way to channel and examine parts of myself that I wouldn't be able to otherwise.

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